Autos & Vehicles

Subaru fixed the 2022 BRZ's torque problem, says math | Revelations with Jason Cammisa | Ep. 02

Months away from production, no journalists have driven the Mk2 BRZ - but we've spent some time with its specs. And a calculator.
The BRZ's torque curve tells an important story: adjusted for weight and gearing, at almost all engine speeds, the 2022 BRZ will pull harder than a 181-hp Mazda MX-5 ND2 Miata - a car that is almost universally agreed does not need a turbo.
The problem with the old, 2.0-liter BRZ wasn't its peak torque - it was the outrageously high engine rpm required to hit that peak; the torque dip in the everyday rpm range; and the uninspiring noise the engine made. The Mk2 BRZ and Toyota GT86 solve that with a new FA24 engine variant - and fake engine sounds coming through the stereo speakers.
Adding a turbocharger at the manufacturer level means a cascading avalanche of cost. Had Subaru put a turbo on the 2022 BRZ, it would likely follow in the footsteps of every other affordable, sporty coupe: it would become so expensive that it would die off.
Toyota already has a $50,000, turbocharged four-cylinder "sports car" - the base Supra. (Which is also not a Toyota.) The BRZ is meant to be inexpensive, and if Subaru reengineered the whole car to cope with the turbo's weight and torque, it would likely cost (and weigh) as much as the Supra. And then, like the F80 BMW M3 and F82 M4, its limit handling would be compromised.
Watch as techy automotive journalist Jason Cammisa uses math to demonstrate that - before anyone's even driven the new BRZ - we know it'll be quicker than a Miata.
==
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Comments 

  1. ArrowCC

    ArrowCC

    14 hours ago

    Still gonna 2jz swap it

  2. Brimz

    Brimz

    Day ago

    This is a nice wake up call for those idiots who just talk about horsepower numbers and 0-60 times all day.

  3. Keith Parker

    Keith Parker

    Day ago

    It's like a best value 400z

  4. Aqua God

    Aqua God

    2 days ago

    I'm saving for a 2022 or 2023 model car. There's 3. civic si, corolla gr and this. Would u buy the frs model if it was lexus badged? Like a mini lc500? I wonder if they'll have a hard top convertible option. Ooppps i forgot to mention i would not be shopping these cars if Trump was still in office. Gas savings is high on the list

  5. Christopher Leamons

    Christopher Leamons

    2 days ago

    So, Subaru and Toyota don’t ACTUALLY sell cars to 15 year old boys?

  6. lapamful

    lapamful

    3 days ago

    Very unhappy with the way the new one looks. It's not that it looks bad, it's just the old one looked better. Unique. Still, it's a better car by all accounts. Peerless content as always, Jason.

  7. Mike 45

    Mike 45

    3 days ago

    Great video thank you. Quick question does the BRZ come with a spare tire nobody seems to know

  8. Abdelhak Khalil

    Abdelhak Khalil

    3 days ago

    I got this channel suggested through USgone's algorithm (thank you Google), and after the first episode I watched, I immediately understood Hagerty's motto: "Never Stop Watching.... Hagerty"

  9. bikebudha01

    bikebudha01

    3 days ago

    front end : perfectly beautiful middle of car: so boring it precludes me brom buying this car back end : only slightly less boring than the middle of the car - You don't have to go all Honda garaish over-the-top type R, but beige is not the design answer either....

  10. Jordan Craighead

    Jordan Craighead

    3 days ago

    It doesn't need a turbo. But a flat 6...

  11. Spider-manana

    Spider-manana

    3 days ago

    Don't blame covid for your lack of social life Jason

  12. David Golz

    David Golz

    5 days ago

    Should have had a better power rating they were WEAK. Look good though.

  13. James Hutchins

    James Hutchins

    5 days ago

    I may need to test drive one of these. Great sales pitch! Its nice to see the kiss method applied for a change for pure driving experience

  14. Denny Balance

    Denny Balance

    5 days ago

    They really fucked up that rear end

  15. Donovan Jenkins

    Donovan Jenkins

    6 days ago

    I like what they did with the power but I like the old body

  16. TheSlimPops

    TheSlimPops

    7 days ago

    I never forget how much these things cost

  17. Duane Craig

    Duane Craig

    7 days ago

    On the cost issue, it isn't just that the cars cost more money and thus only old people can afford it killing off sports cars. Those young people have a ton of college debt now and can't afford a new car even if it is $25,000, so car makers end up with the situation where they have to aim the car at baby boomers to sell. The real story between the BRZ and GT86 success story is that with the two companies working together and sharing cost they were able to produce this vehicle and sell it globally at a price low enough to get enough younger buyers to buy them. This is also why Toyota and BMW partnered up to make the Z car and Supra, the business case for the light weight drivers sports car has just largely dried up.

  18. Prasad Rajeshirke

    Prasad Rajeshirke

    7 days ago

    5:50 JASON CAMMISA HIT HOME WITH THOSE WORDS

  19. Jo Zh

    Jo Zh

    8 days ago

    The key word is "affordable sports car"...

  20. Diego Montoya

    Diego Montoya

    8 days ago

    The Nissan 240SX and the Honda Prelude Si were the late 90s jam for my car soundtrack.

  21. Ryomichi

    Ryomichi

    8 days ago

    I would think that car is made by Honda

  22. Avg Vet

    Avg Vet

    8 days ago

    I've always loved Jason's commentary. Glad to be able to find him again on USgone.

  23. Nick C

    Nick C

    8 days ago

    Jason - too much housing debt killed the affordable sports car, not desire for luxury. If you look at the cars you listed about 3/4 were Japanese. Japanese industry had a debt binge in the early 90s that they are still paying off today. Japanese housing prices are still lower than the early 90s. Industry had to consolidate which meant killing off any niche products - that killed the supply side of affordable sports cars and the domestic demand. In Europe and the USA cheap mortgage debt drove up house prices - and stagnant wage growth meant the ratio of housing cost to income increased. That squeezed disposable income for middle America and middle Europe. That killed international demand. The GFC doubled down on that. Only the top 10% of the population felt any better off in the last 20 years - who buy Porsches. It’s been a slow decline but it all comes back to too much cheap debt used to fund the wrong things. If middle America had enough disposable income to buy a weekend (or mid life crisis) 3rd car, then car companies may look at making them again. Whilst everyone has eye watering levels of mortgage and credit card debt there is no market for them.

  24. David E

    David E

    8 days ago

    Turbos haven't taken over because consumers want turbos, it's just to meet emissions/efficiency regulations. Most people would rather have a high revving, powerful NA engine in a sports car vs a turbo.

  25. Nathaniel Miller

    Nathaniel Miller

    8 days ago

    I like the headlights

  26. Joseph Falzon

    Joseph Falzon

    9 days ago

    Someone should remind Jason that the Subaru WRX with a turbocharged engine AND AWD costs less money than a BRZ - there is no reason they can't make a low/mid 30K turbocharged version to bridge the gap between the BRZ NA version and a Supra

  27. JC DIED

    JC DIED

    9 days ago

    If anyone you know complains about the power on the new BRZ/86 just send them this

  28. Christon Newton

    Christon Newton

    9 days ago

    I live outside the US and Europe. We have the brz and 86 with 2.0 but with our insurance and taxes based on dispacement. Anything over 2.0 will hurt you. So i dont think the new model will sell as well if sealers bring them at all. A smaller cc turbo option might work for us 'rest of worlders'

  29. ChristianX Z owner

    ChristianX Z owner

    9 days ago

    Ive sub..✌️♥️

  30. dachanist

    dachanist

    10 days ago

    Now more than ever, if you want a turbo or SC BRZ, just make one from a clean used gen 1... oh right the SC kit is too expensive and its already fun NA....

    • Dragos Pahontu

      Dragos Pahontu

      10 days ago

      Turbo is bad. This new engine fixed the lack of torque

  31. Daniel Paulson

    Daniel Paulson

    10 days ago

    I seemed to largely lose interest in cars a long time ago and I've been trying to recover that. I had a Probe GT, and it was great. To your point about turbos though... Did you ever drive an Eclipse GSX? It was a ride.

  32. Hector Marin

    Hector Marin

    11 days ago

    I only heard make excuses and make our car look good, said it's affordable lol

    • Dragos Pahontu

      Dragos Pahontu

      10 days ago

      This is a cheap car

  33. Maxfli82

    Maxfli82

    11 days ago

    You’re right about the torque dip. 3-4K rpms in my manual Mazda3 feels glorious. The power just builds.

  34. TT Innovations

    TT Innovations

    12 days ago

    Subaru and Toyota, just stuff a V6 3.5L engine in that and done with it

    • Dragos Pahontu

      Dragos Pahontu

      10 days ago

      Nooo!!! This is why it handles so much better than a Miata! Because it has a boxer

  35. Joseph Lusk

    Joseph Lusk

    12 days ago

    I don't care if it'll keep up with a McLaren either. I do care if a Honda Accord 2.0 can smoke it though. 🤷‍♂️

    • basslover352

      basslover352

      7 days ago

      I could care less if some family sedan slightly beats me in a straight line. You don't have any of the feedback, handling and sensations a car like this would provide over an accord, even the turbo model.

  36. Gimme Da Bacon

    Gimme Da Bacon

    12 days ago

    A sports car we look for is.... no fancy back up camera no, Bluetooth, a plain Jane entertainment system where we can hook up to an aux no fancy nothing just bang for your buck performance instead of 200 crank give 200 wheel like the Camry trd instead of 300 crank make it 300 wheel and kick the fancy stuff and reduce weight

  37. Richard Burns

    Richard Burns

    12 days ago

    Has RX-8 hood lines...and that’s not a compliment

  38. knowsguy

    knowsguy

    12 days ago

    The second he sat on the engine was the time for me to leave and never watch this clown again.

  39. TheSlimPops

    TheSlimPops

    12 days ago

    This, Miata, or 400z?

    • Dragos Pahontu

      Dragos Pahontu

      10 days ago

      This because it's cheap. It will handle the best because of the boxer engine. Even a Forester handles really well compared to any other SUV because of that low centre of gravity.

  40. TheSlimPops

    TheSlimPops

    12 days ago

    Yay, Isuzu Impulse gets a mention! I had one of those :D White wheels and everything ;)

    • Dragos Pahontu

      Dragos Pahontu

      10 days ago

      Isuzu makes the most reliable trucks ever

  41. Jagjeet Sihra

    Jagjeet Sihra

    12 days ago

    If i may correct you, as of 2008 or 9.with the new generation turbos and exhaust systems stock on subarus lag is more or less a thing of the past. Especially the WRX and the STI.

  42. Jake Voth

    Jake Voth

    12 days ago

    I’ve owned 2; a white FRS and I currently own a Black BRZ. I also own a few motorbikes (that was my flex 🤓) and I’ll never sell this BRZ. Never mind dodging another “I should never have sold that car!” heartbreak; I’m keeping it cause I absolutely love it. Maybe it’s cause of those bikes (if I wanna scare myself shitless with ballistic speed I’ll throw a leg over my MV Agusta) that the low power output doesn’t bother me but what Jason is sating here is so true: this car is about balance. About operating something that is in singular harmony with you and with itself. It’s not trying to rip itself apart and you can abuse the throttle anytime you want… Anyways, anyone selling a turbo kit?

  43. Evan Turnau

    Evan Turnau

    12 days ago

    5:05 "...there used to be sports cars we could all afford..." yeah and most of them slower then a modern Camery... wait, wasn't that your point?

  44. xXYannuschXx

    xXYannuschXx

    13 days ago

    People keep complaining that Subaru/Toyota should have gone turbo and that this car is "slow" even with the new engine, despite being 1,1s faster 0-100; but I see NOBODY complaining that the current MX5 is too slow, even though the new BRZ and GR86 are gonna be faster... PS: nearly shed a tear at 5:00 - 5:40 ; this made me realize just HOW much we lost in the car world and whenever I hear "cars have NEVER been better!" I can only think of those cars being lost to time...

  45. Devin Hume

    Devin Hume

    13 days ago

    Waiting for all the recalls!

  46. erikig

    erikig

    13 days ago

    I have decided to join Camisa in calling this car a Suba/Roo/ like Kangaroo. Join us!

  47. OscarCharlieZulu

    OscarCharlieZulu

    13 days ago

    Cool

  48. Boywonderr71

    Boywonderr71

    14 days ago

    SUCH BS! STI & WRX HAVE TURBOS

  49. SlaughterDog

    SlaughterDog

    14 days ago

    That gauge cluster is the cleanest, nicest looking one I’ve ever seen. Why can’t all of them be like that, instead of including frivolous graphics, confusing layouts, and choppy animations? This makes the rest look like clown shoes!

  50. Michael Teret

    Michael Teret

    14 days ago

    I really miss the Subaru XT.

  51. Yup

    Yup

    14 days ago

    Thank you for telling us off. We bloody deserved it.

  52. Adam Hoffman

    Adam Hoffman

    14 days ago

    just make the option there. Terds can buy the base model.

  53. サテライトnsf

    サテライトnsf

    14 days ago

    I've always wondered what kind of young man could afford the sort of cars that fill up the car youtube channels.

  54. donsirsimon

    donsirsimon

    15 days ago

    Who says people have to buy new cars in their 20s?? I bought 5-6 year old civic type R-s (ep3 and fn2) in my 20s. They were fun and kept their value aswell... Last one i drove for years and sold it for what i got it for. Lost money on the mods though but hey i was young. Buying a 30k gt86 or brz new... first 200hp used to be something 10+ years ago. Today 300hp is nothing crazy... what was 200hp 10 years ago should be 300 hp in todays world with everything sporty having 500hp or more. And in 5 years a new brz would lose half of its value.. So you just payed 15k to drive a 200hp economy sport thingy around. And of course you would want to mod it to increase power etc. Thats also like throwing away money... you wont get it back on resale and believe me brz aint a "keep it forever" type of car. Get something slightly used that is already done some depreciation, if you want power just buy a already powerful car, keep it clean and nice, do the maintenance and enjoy. Dont go crazy with tuning and building.Theres a lot of cool 5 year old cars out there for the same money and they keep their value better. I have a small rule for tuning i often suggest to people: " You can spend maximum 10% of your cars worth on mods. Otherwise just buy a better car." It stops people putting like 2k+ worth of mods into a 7k car... 7k car: 700 bucks for mods. 30k car: you are ok to spend 3k on mods. 50k cars: go ahead put 5k into it. if stuff brakes and you replace it with improved parts... thats another deal.. you were going to get replacement parts anyway... You can mod this rule... Change the percentage to 15% if you want... it still works.

  55. Water you doing

    Water you doing

    15 days ago

    Did I just find my man crush?

  56. Faustino Arcelay

    Faustino Arcelay

    15 days ago

    So.... I'm keeping my 2003 outback in orden to buy a 2 gen brz. End of issue.

  57. CrapTrapSlap

    CrapTrapSlap

    15 days ago

    Jason’s 911r review was one of the nicest car review I have ever came across. Too bad not available anyone more on USgone

  58. rob rayne

    rob rayne

    16 days ago

    I cant get past the Honda tails

  59. V

    V

    16 days ago

    really, for this sort if cars, nd, brz, 86.... its really not about 60mil times or faster and slower... its about balance and harmony

  60. Raso Kye

    Raso Kye

    16 days ago

    Oh good. That means the previous models will be cheaper soon. Excellent.

  61. underballbutter

    underballbutter

    16 days ago

    The looks might have to grow on you...

  62. Broken Subie

    Broken Subie

    16 days ago

    I like this guy

  63. richie rich

    richie rich

    16 days ago

    why don't they boost it like sti that's the slowest coupe on the market

  64. Arun kumar

    Arun kumar

    16 days ago

    Supercharger!!!

  65. Gordz

    Gordz

    17 days ago

    was this rendered on a potato? what's with all the visual artifacts?!

  66. Simon Baba

    Simon Baba

    17 days ago

    Your so close but take a look at another no longer produced competitor, the S2000. It made less torque, less horsepower, had less chassis rigidity and yet those going up in value? Why? They reward you for reveling them out! Sound, more power the farther you go, the sound, even v-tech(yo) if that’s your thing. The reason the brz is lame is because the engine has no character, it’s boring. It’s only exciting because of the turbo characteristics in the wrx/sti. It’s boring because of the math it was made with, not heart. They tried to stick eco tires to it to give you the experience of power with out it.

  67. Nestor Chavez

    Nestor Chavez

    17 days ago

    I've always had as crush on Jason. 🤭

  68. Eugene Boucher

    Eugene Boucher

    18 days ago

    Well, why not a supercharger???

  69. Khawer Ozi

    Khawer Ozi

    18 days ago

    Well explained 👏

  70. Ben Ivy

    Ben Ivy

    18 days ago

    Jason, I love yo- I mean your reviews. I love your reviews. 😅

  71. Adam

    Adam

    19 days ago

    With every car getting s turbo these days, I don't the no it would have killed it if it came with a turbo

  72. Mr Porsche

    Mr Porsche

    19 days ago

    The brz had no torque and the gears were to far apart and the engine didnt breathe right it was chocking.Its the exact opposite of what a sports car should be lets see if they fixed all that

  73. dalton knox

    dalton knox

    19 days ago

    Trying to get more out of Subaru's flat fours usually results in head gaskets failing earlier.

  74. PleaseDontWatchThese

    PleaseDontWatchThese

    19 days ago

    "its impossible to make an affordable sports car with a turbo" Meanwhile Subaru with the WRX, Ford with the Mustang, and Chevy with the Camaro: "Turbo go burrrr"

  75. BBBT

    BBBT

    20 days ago

    Back in the 90's and early 2000's affordable sports cars sold like hot cakes! How do i know??? Cuz all those mini sports cars get stolen till this day lol

  76. Brian Camper

    Brian Camper

    20 days ago

    This man drives a 90's scirocco. If that doesn't make him a real car guy nothing does.

  77. Xencer

    Xencer

    20 days ago

    Literally is no point in explaining it because the average driver won't understand. This is why you see corvettes and challengers and mustangs wrecking into crowds all day long. Because they don't know how to drive and couldn't even drive a 200 hp to its peak.

  78. Alex LaJeunesse

    Alex LaJeunesse

    20 days ago

    I really hope all the keyboard warriors see this video. But they will still argue that it needs a factory turbo even with the facts just spoon fed to them by Jason.

  79. Aldo Mandovani

    Aldo Mandovani

    20 days ago

    A torque curve on a graph proofs nothing prior brz was about 2secs a lap slower than ND 2 around 1min or so tracks and thats a big gap even with a better chassis

  80. Sim

    Sim

    20 days ago

    Cries at someone even mentioning the Hyundai Tiburon 5:26

  81. Jeff Sloane

    Jeff Sloane

    20 days ago

    You snarky bastard. You nailed it again. Thumbs up. Hope the 19OE 2.3-16v is still brining you joy.

  82. Alexandro Ruiz

    Alexandro Ruiz

    21 day ago

    For 1000 less I could by an wrx and have awd and a turbo. A back seat that I could have ... a book to read 😆.

  83. Zeus .Edwards

    Zeus .Edwards

    21 day ago

    Thank you !!! been waiting for 10 years for people to start to realize this @5:53

  84. Rick Beaver

    Rick Beaver

    21 day ago

    all of those coupes died because we all grew up and had families.

  85. Ian

    Ian

    21 day ago

    I won't buy a supra because of the fake vent vomit. Fake engine noise via speakers is also a no go in any car.

  86. Pars S

    Pars S

    21 day ago

    Sub/Toyota should easily double that 120k ownership. Hopefully the aftermarket will offer-up all the lightest components possible to really dial-in this car. I would skip if Honda had a NA solution to challenge the GR86. AT the track, my K20C2 6MT can keep up with GR86/BRZ, but new 2.4L is gonna leave me in the dust.

  87. Thatmanwan •

    Thatmanwan •

    21 day ago

    im now seeing this video and I could not agree more on the loss of affordable sports cars being lost bc of price being attached to turbos

  88. Minace 141

    Minace 141

    21 day ago

    I have never come in contact with Hagerty. But after finding the 500E sedan video in my recommends with Jason in it (who I have know from other channels) I soaked up all videos like a sponge. Freakin amazing stuff here.

  89. user

    user

    21 day ago

    They could amortize the price of the turbo by not developing this new worst-looking body and just make a 2021 old looking but turbocharge still affordable BRZ TA and everybody would rush to get.

  90. T MartyF

    T MartyF

    22 days ago

    It's got the front of a Ford Escape and the rear of an Opel Insignia. Probably drives like a dream though.

  91. Scott D

    Scott D

    22 days ago

    Hmm, for not too much more money, the upcoming Nissan Z has 2 turbos and 400 hp.....

  92. Jack Russelle Lewis

    Jack Russelle Lewis

    22 days ago

    Still slow

  93. Michael Quick

    Michael Quick

    22 days ago

    This guy is amazing.

  94. DashCamEyes

    DashCamEyes

    22 days ago

    I holding on to get this car.

  95. DashCamEyes

    DashCamEyes

    22 days ago

    I agree if you put the turbo then you kill it.

  96. Bond

    Bond

    23 days ago

    reynold's brother

  97. Always Be Closing Show

    Always Be Closing Show

    23 days ago

    We can only say it is quicker THEORETICALLY 😇 and it should be faster and quicker with the 2.4 engine.

  98. Jeremy Jones

    Jeremy Jones

    23 days ago

    It needs to be supercharged

  99. moldyrefrigerator

    moldyrefrigerator

    23 days ago

    I’m a BRZ owner and I understand it being an affordable car, makes sense…but at the same time they can easily make a limited run of turbo BRZ/86 that costs more. Clearly those special edition cars would sell out immediately. If other car manufacturers can make 23 variants of their sports cars, including Toyota having multiple Supra variants, there is no reason why the BRZ/86 can only have one engine aspiration.

  100. duCK

    duCK

    23 days ago

    I’m 23 with a A90 let’s go

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